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Dr. Demeulenaere: Um, can I add a few things to this? So yeah, so first of all, I just want to say that like for instance Guam is, you know, it's a lot of different cultures here, right, but I think you know the customary practice of asking permission for instance to the forest is something that I see here with my neighbors everywhere you go. It's still very embedded in practices and despite colonization and even religious aspects even with the Catholic Church there's practices that are, you know, traditional practices that are still alive here in Guam and... So it's important to recognize that spirituality is really recognized by the whole community. We have also sacred trees which is also a way of protecting, you know, resources, we have the nunu tree here in Guahan and we have, we have a tree in our little street here and when it's overhanging too much nobody wants to cut it you know like it's so sacred, right, so I think it's important to highlight that. But the other aspect I wanted to say is that, um, you know the fight kind of, for Litekyan, right, or trying to preserve that for the people is really, um, not just, you know, the cultural practitioners, there's also scientists that really were trying to advocate to protect the forest that's Tailalo and the Prutehi and Litekyan you know because of ecological reasons too and because the landscape itself for instance at Tailalo has very deep karst-like limestone, karst then once that would be removed it's gone forever. You can never restore that landscape and mitigation that is proposed is really it's like a forest enhancement site and its degraded forest that they're gonna try to, you know, like um, come back to a more natural forest but that will never be replaced. So it was like, um, a co-production of knowledge of people, scientists and non-indigenous people but everything was grounded in indigenous spirituality, I have to say and, uh, practices because, um, the, yeah, the yoamte and their healing practices was for sure one of the most important aspects and of course also the return of the lands because, um, in, uh, 1957 and until then Litekyan was owned by Chamorro people and it was condemned by the Department of Defense for their use and later when they didn't need it anymore instead of returning it to the original land owners it actually went
Dr. Fisher: Yeah, I mean, I shared about how, you know, my own not misperceptions but maybe, you know, just the idea that that you have a concept for what you're going to study and then things just completely fall apart when you get there because nobody's interested in talking about that right. So I think there's something really to be said about how you position yourself too and I think this is what, uh, Stephen and I are trying to do with this book, right, to try to, uh, how do you do engaged scholarship, how do we update our approaches and methodologies for doing research and I think there's a lot already that's been written about participation, right. How we engage with local communities and who we decide to work with, um, but I think it really requires this openness and an ability to a willingness to listen to really spend the time to hear what's important from local perspectives, um, rather than translating them for the things that we want to see and obviously those things are inevitable, right. We're drawn to these issues, we research these topics for a reason, um, but I think there's something to be said about how you position yourself to best listen like, uh, in the chapter that I'm trying to write right now I mean everybody that I worked with at the beginning they say farming is really easy, right. But I did not find it easy especially at the beginning and I think there was the, this there was a really important moment for me where I had been like, uh hoeing, in the rice field for close to like a week and I had like 21 blisters on my hands and this